It would take a full ride at Berkeley to even make me think twice, given that my goals are biglaw/prestigious clerkships. Always nice to have a shot at academia, too.
If this had been my final decision (and ignoring the huge need-based grant SLS offered me), Berkeley would have had to offer a full ride to even get me to blink.
I love the confidence of this board. I picked 30k but in reality it’d be closer to 20k. To be clear I wouldn’t attend either without substantial aid but if Stanford was 25K a year and Berkeley was free I’d chose UC. Maybe I’m just debt adverse but I couldn’t imagine being 100K in debt, let alone 200K in debt with interest that’s a ton of money. I’ve worked big law for a summer and I’m already looking for exit options. I’d hate to be stuck doing something I hate for 4-5 years just to pay of loans. Maybe my answer is colored by the fact that A) I had a pretty good job before I came in and could get offers in that field again if I struck out at OCI B) I could care less about the so-called prestige of a law firm and C) Did I mention I’m very debt adverse?
This mindset is criminally under-appreciated on this board. There’s a bunch of 0Ls saying “HYS AT STICKER, MAYBE CCN” when what no one understands is that even if they got into, say, Yale, which means a guaranteed job, they may have to sweat it out in biglaw for 4-5 years to pay back that kind of debt. Maybe this makes sense for a homeless college grad with 50k in undergrad debt (which means that another 150k-200k is like eh, whatever).
Before being swarmed by “BUT YALE IS THE BEST OMG”, consider that roughly half the students get “forced”/choose biglaw.
To answer this question, 90k at Berkeley for me would be enough. Wouldn’t attend either at sticker.
First of all, it is rare not to get any aid whatsoever at HYS.
Secondly, LOL @ being afraid of taking Yale at sticker. And no, no, no you would not have to take biglaw in order to pay back your loans. Yale grads get the most prestigious PI jobs in the country and the best loan repayment assistance to boot.
If you do decide on biglaw, not only are your chances of lasting more than a few years greater, but your exit options are practically guaranteed, simply by virtue of having a Yale degree. I have seen this happen personally, even with the dumbest of Yale associates.
Not going to Yale because you’re afraid of $250k debt is moronic and short-sighted.
And I’m pretty sure all of the above could be said for Stanford just as much as Yale.
At YLS, not a 0L. No one here is “forced” to choose BigLaw. COAP is amazing. If I decide on graduation day that I want to work as a circus clown, I’ll never have to put a dime of my own money toward debt service (unless I strike it rich as a circus clown). SLS’s LRAP isn’t quite that amazing, but it’s still incredible. LIPP is pretty great, too.
SLS is worth a lot more money than Boalt because the odds of a bad outcome are much lower at the former than the latter.
I got into two of them and I didn’t apply to Stanford. And I tell you unequivocally I wouldn’t go to Yale at sticker. I wouldn’t go anywhere at sticker, ever. I’m not saying Yale at sticker is a bad decision (in fact considering how awesome COAP is, it is probably a good idea) but I wouldn’t do it, esp. when I probably got into a school like Penn, NYU or Berkeley with a huge scholarship.
It depends on how much money you make as a circus clown. Let me give you a scenerio. You go to Yale at sticker, coming out with about 230k in loans. Coap works on a ten year plan thus they would pay up to 25k in years 1-5 and 42K yr 6-10.
Let’s say you decide screw law I want to teach kids and become a teacher in New York. The starting salary is 50k, Your spouse is a policy analyst for NYC and makes about 100k. So combined your income is 150k after taxes (using standard deduction), SS, etc., it’s about 104k. Now if I’m reading this right COAP is taken from your before tax salary which is 50K plus your spouses salary minus the first 40K. So your COAP eligible income is 110K. The rate would be 6750 plus 60% of money over 80K. Which mean you would contribute 24750 and COAP would pay 50 bucks. so instead of taking home 104k a year you’re taking home 79k a year. Even with Coap you can get screwed. I know most 0L’s don’t look at this stuff as real money but it is. Paying that type of money for 10 years is crazy to me. Once again maybe I’m too risk adverse but I’d rather be debt free and go to a school like NYU than pay sticker at Yale.
BUT your spouse may have never married you if you didn’t have that sexy YLS degree, so then you would only be making 50k. Your “free” education at NYU cost you $29k a year, or payments of $2,400 a month. Is that a risk you want to take?
Joking aside, there is risk in every decision, even a full-ride at NYU or Berkeley. If you don’t get the job that you want the opportunity cost of going to NYU over not going to law school is three years of earnings, while the opportunity cost of not going to HYS is a lifetime of higher earnings and/or satisfaction.
Going to a school that virtually guarantees the job that you want and has a back-up guarantee of loan repayment is actually the risk averse option here. Loans in this case are not a gamble, they are the premium you are willing to pay to avoid risk. Lower risk usually does carry some added cost.
A lower ranked school on a full scholarship is a gamble that you will get the same outcome at a lower cost. Your odds may be good and it may be a risk you are willing to take - but it is not the risk averse option.
